What are Different ways of Buying Mutual Funds
POSTED BY ON April 7, 2010 COMMENTS (258)
There was a time, when mutual fund investing was limited to calling an agent and investing through him. He filled a form for you, and only bothered you for signatures; This was called as “convenient service.”. Things have changed now though. With entry loads abolished by SEBI and with so many technological advances, we have different ways of investing in mutual funds .This article explains the different ways of investing in mutual funds: through agents, AMC’s, demat, and web portals. Lets take a look-see…
Different ways of Investing in Mutual Funds
Through an Agent
This is the oldest and one of the most convenient ways of investing in mutual funds. You just call an agent and tell him you want to buy mutual funds. He comes right to your door, & fills in the various forms. All you need to do, is sign the forms. Since the abolition of entry loads, you now have to compensate the agent for his services, and pay him commission on the amount invested. Agents can charge anywhere from 1-2% of the amount to be invested. Make sure you don’t pay him more than 1%, which is a good enough amount of brokerage, for expediting the process (filling in forms, carrying them to the Mutual Fund offices, having them processed et al.) If he gives you sound advice on what mutual funds would suit you, and would help you achieve your financial goals, you could then, compensate him more. That makes sense. Be cautious though! Check the details of the form and what is filled. Ideally, you should fill the form.
You should go with this way of investing only if you want convenience and comfort takes more precedence. Click on this AMFI Agent Search Link to search for mutual funds agents in your city. You can submit the search with different parameters and get a list of all the agents with their name, address & phone numbers. There are many agents who are linked with many companies (like NJInvest or Prudent Advisory) who provide login facility, where you can login and see your mutual funds Performance anytime . Read : How many Mutual Funds you should have ?
Direct Investing through an AMC
You can now invest directly through an AMC (simply put – the Mutual Fund companies themselves.) There are many mutual funds who provide online facilities for investing. To do so though, you need to have a folio number, which you get only after investing in a particular mutual fund, which means that you have to go physically to the AMC office to invest for the first time. Next time onwards, you can invest in that mutual fund, online through their website. Using this method, makes sure that your entire amount, e.g. Rs 100/- gets invested and there are no charges here. The only hiccup, is the manual work involved at the start of the process; you have to take the pain of personally going to the office and then filling in the form. Sometimes, it’s a bit of a headache. If you want to invest in funds from four different AMC’s, then you have to go to all of them.
It would make sense to use this method, if the amount of investment is going to be large-ish and your tenure is long-term. In that case, using this way, will save you lot of money in commissions. Just imagine that if you invest 10,000 per month in mutual funds, then with a 1% commission structure, you save Rs 100 per month, which is Rs 3,600 for a 3 yr period. So 3,600 is what you lose when you go with an agent who charges a 1% commission . Note, that you do not require demat account for this .
Read : List of Best Equity Diversified Mutual Funds
Investing through a Demat Account
This is one of the most convenient methods of investing in mutual funds. If you have a demat account, you can browse through all the mutual funds on the site, and just with a few clicks of a mouse, you can invest in a fund of your choice. But then again, you have to pay commission here, since banks are also agents. Some charge a flat fee and some charge on percentage basis. For eg., ICICI Bank charges Rs 30 or 1.5% per SIP, whichever is lower and HDFC charges Rs 100 per quarter irrespective of the amount invested. The biggest advantage of buying and selling through a demat account, is that you control everything from one place. Some of the players in online mutual funds selling are :
- 5 paisa
- Geojit Securities
- HDFC Securities
- ICICI Direct
- India Bulls
- InvestSmart Online
- Investmentz.com
- Kotak Street
- Motilal Oswal
- Sharekhan
Investing through CAMS or Karvy
CAMS is the transaction processing company which services almost all the mutual funds in India. They process all the buying and sending the report etc to end customer . You can also invest directly through CAMS . All you have to do is Download the mutual fund form from the AMC website. Take a print out and fill the form . Then submit to your nearest CAMS or Karvy Investor centre along with copy of PAN card, SIP form(if needed) and cheque . For now , there is no way of investing online with them .
Here is the list of CAMS offices in different cities and Below is list of different AMC forms which you can download .
ABN AMRO Mutual Fund
AIG Global Investment Group Mutual Fund
Baroda Pioneer Mutual Fund
Benchmark Mutual Fund
Bharti AXA Mutual Fund
Birla Sun Life Mutual Fund
Canara Robeco Mutual Fund
DBS Chola Mutual Fund
DWS Mutual Fund
DSP Merrill Lynch Mutual Fund
Edelweiss Mutual Fund
Escorts Mutual Fund
Fidelity Mutual Fund
Franklin Templeton Mutual Fund
HDFC Mutual Fund
HSBC Mutual Fund
ICICI Prudential Mutual Fund
IDFC Mutual Fund
ING Mutual Fund
JM Financial Mutual Fund
JPMorgan Mutual Fund
Kotak Mahindra Mutual Fund
LIC Mutual Fund
Lotus India Mutual Fund
Mirae Asset Mutual Fund
Morgan Stanley Mutual Fund
PRINCIPAL Mutual Fund
Quantum Mutual Fund
Reliance Mutual Fund
SBI Mutual Fund
Sundaram BNP Paribas Mutual Fund
Tata Mutual Fund
Taurus Mutual Fund
UTI Mutual Fund
Break Down of How investors invest in Mutual funds [POLL RESULTS]
Here is a poll results
Note : This Poll is from the users of this blog only , so this result should not be generalised for whole country , Its just for the net savvy community.
Conclusion
Before choosing the way you want to invest in mutual funds , you should consider cost and convenience . If you are investing for long-term , you should definitely go through a way where there are less commissions or no commissions. Only exception can be through an advisor who gives you very sound advice and you are confident that paying him a commission would help you get a better knowledge and returns .
Comments please , how do you invest ? What are your experiences and learnings ? Is there any other way ? Any tips from your side ?
There was a time, when mutual fund investing was limited to calling an agent and investing through him. Things have changed now. With entry loads abolished by IRDA (please provide link or full-form) and with so many technological advances, we have different ways of investing in mutual funds.
does funsindia.com too charge commission?
the right question is “Does FundIndia also have commission based model” , because its not that they charge from you, but get it from AMC . There is a difference. The answer is YES
Not correct information regarding commission of mf agent, you said on Rs 10,000 agent will get Rs 3,600 means 36% then why everyone generally pitching insurance to every next customer. Why not Mf they are selling if commission is so high more than insurance products according to your article.
If you do not have complete information on any of the product and its commission please don’t mis guide anyone customer because so many customers will be reading your article and they are in thought that you are having sound knowledge and giving correct advice to layman.
Please stop mis guiding in name of jagoinvestor.
What has been written above is 3600 for 3 YEARS which amounts to 1% and not 36%.
Please read before commenting and mis-guiding other readers.
I have invested through a broker in a mutual fund and have a folio number. Can I use that folio number while opening account with the same mutual fund for satisfying KYC norms?
Yes you can
@Manish,
Can you please give some good adviser name in Delhi NCR if you have for investing in MF funds/SIP.
Thanks
Anil
Hi Anil
Not sure of anyone in Delhi
Why dont you take our help in investing in mutual funds. We can help you on that. Contact me on support@jagoinvestor.com
very useful for any new invester.Thanks Manish
Thanks Sumit !
Very very useful and clear info! Just one point- these facebook etc icons make it very disturbing to read , why do they have to be over the part we are reading. Any way of getting rid of them?
Additional information: I am 30Y old and Single, the investment corpus is for retirement. I have been contributing 5K to PF, plan to do another 5K to PPF per month.
Kindly advise if the chosen fund are good to invest..
Hi Manish,
i have learned a bit of financial planning going through your blogs and books(16 personal principles & Financial planner in 10 steps). Thanks for education the naive investor like me and most cases we are ignorant of basic facts.
I would like to seek your advise on my investment for Mutual fund, planning to invest 10K per month for long term 10 – 15 years.
1. HDFC Top 200 Fund : Open Ended Growth Scheme – 4000 : chose this checking the past 10Y average returns and fund manager reputation.
2. HDFC MidCap Opportunities (G) –3000
3. ICICI Pru Value Discovery Fund (G) -3 000
I intend to do direct with fund house, also checking if i can go for direct option with CAMS/Karvy as they will provide option of consolidating the fund online..
You can go ahead with those options . They are good one’s
Manish
HI Manish..
After reading quite a lot of above blogs, thought you will be able to advice me.. I want to invest in mutual funds one large-cap/one mid-cap and hence contacted an agent.(got the ref from a colleague).. So this guy seems to be good, however he said the brokerage charges will be 1%. So I didnt understand that.. I will ask him again, but thought to discuss here once…
– is it that 1%full term of 5yrs span…
– again a friend of mine told me ” its 1% on entry and 0% on exit “…
very confused… if you can tell me a bit before i discuss with my agent.
Thanks Manish.
I think this 1% is the charge he will take from your for ADVICE . So everytime you invest Rs 10k , he will charge Rs 100 . But if his advice is sound and good one, its ok .. you can go with him . Better clarify with him about the charges
Manish
Hi Manish,
I want to start an SIP for building a corpus amount in long term.I am going to invest in mutual funds for the first time. Can you suggest some suitable mutual funds and also good brokers if possible (or should I invest directly through the online route) for doing this?
Thanks,
Varun
You can do direct investment with AMC , some good funds to start with are HDFC Prudence !
Thanks for the suggestion Manish! 🙂
Hi manish,
Very informative article.I’ve been following your blog for quite a long time and its excellent.Iam going to start investing in mf soon.But can you suggest me which is the safest and convenient(keeping in mind all the expences related to mf) ways to buy mf’s.Online portals or amc or brokers like sharekan??
Cost wise , direct AMC is good, but convenience wise , I would suggest FundsIndia !
Hello Everyone,
Thanks Manish for such a wonderful article, Since discussion started some where 2 years back I want everyone to put some light on present day options, after SEBI abolishing commissions on MF, to invest in MF keeping in mind ( brokerage,service tax, commission, trailing commission, convenience of buying at single window with one account through online mode.
OPTIONS INCLUDING
1.DeMat
2. AMC
3. CAMS
4.Web Portals like Fundsindia
5. HDFC Service Account
6 etc
But what suggestion you want out of this ?
Hi Manish,
Can you please tell the ways to go with direct option of MF buying online.
Want to start SIP’s without agent or broker.
Regards
Ritu
You will have to buy it through AMC for the first time . Visit AMC branches, or call them
Hi Manish,
Thanks for the informative article.
I would like to invest in SIP for a period of 10 years or so. Can you please provide me the best equity funds which I should look. I am planning to invest about 10K.
Regards,
Robin
You can start with HDFC Prudence
I am beginner .I want to invest through sip on-line in mutual fund. Can you guide me best way for investment.
go for HDFC Prudence
Thanks and Shabassh Manish Bhai for such an informative article…
Welcome
My Agent gave my fully rubbish ideas and erode all my money. I gave him Rs 1 lac to invest in stocks and now I have only 6000.Luckily I did some SIP’S but i want to change his agent code from there.Also I got a new SIP online of Reliance, but there also had to give his agent code.
So is there any possibility of removing his code
Which code are you talking about ? If your agent has helped you invest in stocks, then its just the first time brokerage that he earns .. There is no recurring thing ?
Which is better way SIP or STP for mutual fund investment?
Both are different things for different purpose . What is your requirement , I will tell you which one is better?
Can I have updated latest Entryload, Expense ratio table for various MFs.
First of all Thanks Manish, I was thinking to start investing in MFs but was not sure of various options. I thought demat account is the only option.
However, I have few queries:
1. FUNDSINDIA, CAMSONLINE, KARVY are safe web portals????
2. Is investment through SIP will require forms to be filled every month on these web portals??
Regards,
Ankur
Ankur
These portals are running from many years .. you can read about it on net and decide if you want go with them or not . I can not recommend with any guarantee , but many readers from this website have an account with fundsindia
You have to do the paper work just once
I want to start SIP and MF first .
SIP and MF are not seperate . you do SIP in MF
Hi Manish,
I want to open demat account. Please suggest me which one is best and cheaper ?
Regards,
Laksmi
There is no one like that which is best and cheaper. All demat account have something better than others , you have to see what exactly you want out of it .
Thanks for all the info you have posted, I am a regular reader to both- Jaagoinvestor and Hemant Beniwal.
Just adding one more thing, Investonline.in is another platform , where you can buy and transact mfs,it is similar to fundsindia.com,also free.
Thanks for sharing that Sharad . will look at it
Hi Manish
I don’t have any GOLD MF SIP in my portfolio. I was trying to decide in between Reliance & HDFC Gold Fund and now suddenly we have one more NFO from Canara Robeco Gold Savings Fund n market. If I go with this i can get my SIP starts in NFO price only as compared to investing in above two existing schemes at their current market prices which are high.
As per my understandings at there is no individual choices in GOLD schemes as other MF schemes where Fund managers will decide which company to choose like SBI, ICICI or Infosys. Everybody will invest in gold only and all will get almost same return. So why not to invest in NFO (if available in market) rather than investing in existing gold schemes?
So from your opinion one should go with which option in this situation?
Thanks
Tushar
“Low NAV is good” is a myth , read this http://jagoinvestor.dev.diginnovators.site/2007/11/mutual-funds-common-myths.html
Hi Manish
I just wanted to know, whether it make any difference if we purchase MF on lumpsum basis (say 5k/month) every month regularly with discipline as against SIP?
By this means, we can have our own SIP, based on our savings for the month..
The reason for asking this is there are few months in a year when we meet with some unexpected expenses so we will be running short of Cash. So instead of committed SIP isn’t better to have our own SIP running. Even though probability of such event of unexpected cash outflow are less but still I feel it as more appealing. Your views/thoughts?
Regarding purchase process we can purchase it online probably to save time?
Thanks
Jeetu
Jeetu
If you can be desciplined , thats the best thing to do , but not making it automated means every time you have to remember and control your emotions while investing .. its hard !
Manish
Thanks for your reply. Probably you are Right. But I just wanted to know if it makes any difference?
After going through your blog from past few months I feel I have improved my relationship with money and I think because of your posts (even though I have not read all posts) I feel more disciplined. So I will try for disciplined investment. In case Emotions are coming in between then I will switch or start for SIP
Thanks once again for your guidance.
Hi,
I’ve shifted from icicidirect to DIRECT buying of MFs. I have done direct purchases by contacting CAMS and getting internet accounts for HDFC AMC and DSPBR AMC. I see all of my money going to buy units. In the application form I write “Direct”, still I have a doubt that a part of my money will go to CAMS indirectly. How’s CAMS different from a distributor in terms of trail commission? Also, if someone is buying through ICICI, only his NAV will be affected by trail commission, and not everybody’s right? NAV is calculated after subtracting the expenses incurred by fund for its entire asset or it is different for each person?
Regards
Aparna
NAV is same for everybody.
Hi Anand,
Thanks. However, my doubt is still not clear.
1. If NAV is same for everybody, then even though I invest directly, I am paying part of the trail commission that AMC pays to distributors?
2. From previous posts in jagoinvestor I got an impression that if I invest directly, my returns will be slightly more than a person who is investing through distributor, for the same period with the same fund. Is that true?
Thanks and Regards
Aparna
Hi Anand,
I also have the same question as Aparna CK whether a commission of my money is going to CAMS or Karvy directly or indirectly through AMC
yes , that goes !
manish then investing thru cams or karvy will give slightly lesser return than investing thru amc is it true for direct nav schemes also
True !
Hi Manish,
I addicted to ur website, its is damn useful..i had no knowledge at all in financial planning, but now with ur suggestions, i started 3 SIPs ( HDFC Top 200, HDFC Equity, DSP BlackRock Top 100 Equity) for 2000 each per month yesterday for 20 years term . That too with no agents , i went directly to CAMS office and done it:)
Last month i have started 6k per month in PPF too:)
Planning to take term insurance ( Kotak e preferred for 30 Lacs and Icici Iprotect for 30L) this month.
i felt lucky to find this website , it helps me to plan my long term investment.
If you provide some insights on short term investmet that could be very useful.
Right now we started Post office RD for 5000 per month for 5 years.
Expecting your post on short term investment( 1 yr to 2 yr ) too ..!!
Manish ..u r rocking..
Cheers,
Sravi
Sravi
Thanks for your appreciation , the best thing I liked in your case is that you taking actions apart from learning , thats best and rare
I would try to cover the topic on short term investment options soon
Manish
Dear Manish,
I have a three small question related to mutual fund investment.
1) Why should we go for SIP route, better fix a amount and mutual fund per month, and invest when market dips.
2) I hope power of compounding will work in this case (for long term) , as only number of units of a fund will count i.e. we should have maximum unit at minimum prices
3)When we transact before cut-off time, which NAV we get, previous day or same day. (answer to this question will help me to undestand whether place the order on the same day market dips or next day).
Thanks in advance
Rakesh
Rakesh
1. If you think you can do it, you are welcome to go ahead and do the monthly investment yourself . But its Damn tough
2. the reason is same, if you can really pick the downs then yes , power of compounding will work !
3. If you transact before 3 pm , you get same day NAV
Manish
There is a time gap in SIP mode of investment in http://www.fundsindia.com. This is what from their site:
“How does SIP investments with FundsIndia work? Why is there a 1-2 days delay between the date of debit and the date of investment?
As part of the online channel partner agreements that FundsIndia has signed with mutual fund companies, we (FundsIndia) are required to manage the debit/investment process for SIP investments. This has both advantages and disadvantages. Advantages are that we can offer SIP on any day of the month to our investors regardless of constraints in this regard set by the mutual fund companies. Also, we can stop, re-start and change the scheme of the SIP investments more dynamically than a regular mutual fund SIP.
Disadvantage is that when we make a debit for the investment, we get information about the debit (whether it was made successfully or not) only a day or two after the debit. We can make the investment on behalf of the investor only at that point. Please note that we do not have your money in the interim and we do not accrue any interest for these one or two days.
However, from the investor’s perspective, this should not matter as the debit is made on their account on the appointed date, and the investment is made very shortly thereafter. The difference of one or two days should not matter over the long term.”
Won’t it be a matter of concern due to NAV changes? Should we consider this or ignore?
Ravikanth
yes , its not a big concern , see this comment : http://jagoinvestor.dev.diginnovators.site/2010/04/interview-with-fundsindia-com-podcast.html#comment-19380
manish
My wife is an NRI and she wants to give a gift in Mutual funds to her niece/nephew (minors) for Rs35,000 each and the fund will be in their names, and they are PIO holding overseas Citizenship and not indian residents too.
Can you advice if this is possible.Funds will be from my wife’s Indian account and can my wife claim Tax exemption under Sec 80C?
Thanks;
Hi,
I really got stuck, I am trying to stop all my old sectoral MF and start new sips with diversified fund. I redeemed and asked to stop all my existing MF’s (Reliance, I checked the box of their form to stop the MF SIP), they sent me my money whatever valuation it had. But they still continue to SIP from my account. How would I stop it??
Tirthankar
You just give a letter to the fund house or the registrar CAMS . They will stop SIP.
Hi Manish,
I dont know whether this is the right place to post my query.
Can you please help me to buy Silver either physical or e-silver form? I know Nationalspotexchange deals with e-gold & e-silver. But opening account there is tedious job. I have demat account with icici & india infoline.
Please let me know if you know any place in bangalore I can buy silver physically ?
Thanks
Jana
Jana
You can buy silver from some jewellary shop incase you are not interested in opening an account .
manish
Thanks to all for useful comments.
I am an NRI and trying to figure out the best and cheap broker with online facility. After all the research online I still find it difficult to choose one. The summary I can make is that ICICIDirect has it all but is expensive. Among cheaper ones is Sharekhan and FundsDirect. Many have given +ve comments about FundsIndia and it is cheaper also. But other than the annual maintenance charge what else is the -ve point for Sharekhan when compared to FundsIndia. It will be helpful if I can get some feedback for Sharekhan.
I want to go for either ShareKhan or FundsIndia, but which one? couldn’t decide yet.
And I will be investing around 5 lakhs in MF and around 3 in Shares per annum . Just in case that can be a criteria to choose. Thanks
Hello sir,
Srikanth from FundsIndia here. I can’t speak for our competitor, but you can check out the pretty nifty things we do that are different from others in this page:
https://www.fundsindia.com/content/jsp/corporate/WhyJoin.do
Our service is very investment friendly – that is, we are not very big on frequent trading, and we are very well suited for people who want to do medium to long term investments. That is probably one of the things you can factor into your decision-making.
Please let me know if I can answer any specific questions for you. You can reach me at srikanth at fundsindia dot com.
Thanks,
Srikanth
nice great job done
thanks
thanks , keep coming 🙂
Manish
The points mentioned by you are clearly elaborative and self explanatory.
Personally speaking I would give a go-ahead to all the different ways of buying online. A few formalities of a Demat account and a sufficient balance needs to be in place. The other formalities ranging from online forms and log in ids are simple to manage. Previously the hitch in online transactions would be the constructive delivery of stocks taking place after 2-3 days of the actual transaction. But now through superior services made available, this transition period is successfully eliminated. A check through good online portals will reveal all this easily. You may also check one of such online portal of GEPL -http://www.guptaequities.com/
The advantages are many as compared to a few disadvantages. Personal control and involvement, dealing directly with the company or the financial organisation, non dependability on the broker and his phone calls, quick trading, research reports and insider insights that are provided by brokers for online customers and ample online options, boost not just your morale but even your drive to invest well.
Furthermore, online trading has eliminated the regular monitory check to be kept on price. It has become simpler with the option of limit price, at which the stocks / funds can be sold without being persistently monitored. Past records can be checked free of cost at any time. Apart from server errors and online customer help delays, online investment is the best way which opens up investment avenues in the entire world, from any place with just a mouse click.
Jatin
Thanks for your views 🙂
Manish
Manish ,
My lookout is to do SIP for longer term frm next month onwards , in order to do so have just opened Demat Account with HDFC securties in last week though its not required …would like to have your assistance over couple of query
1)As you stated in your article we need to pay 100 rs per quarter irrespective of SIP amount – does it mean 100 rs will be static charge in every quarter which will become 400 rs anually plus demant maintanence annual charges ?
2) Secondly as HDFC securites yet to commence online txn for mutual fund thus while manuallly filling form at first time how would we ensure that agent is not any intermiddiary in between AMC and customer to avoid agent charges ..is there any field at form which we should keep in attention for the same..
Rakesh
1) Yes
2) HDFC is your agent in this case , they are charging 100 per quarter .
Manish
hi manish
what do u make of sectorial fmcg funds.they gave +ve returns even in the market crash.can i take a bet on it to invest 50k for 2 yrs especting 15% returns.
Manish Sahab,
Recently I have started Rs.2000/- p.m.SIP in Sundaram Tax Saver by submitting documents direct to CAMS office.
It is ELSS, but i forgot to fill anythings on the form of STP? Will be there any problem in redemption after lock-in period?
Regards
Das
S.Das,
The concept of STP (Systematic Transfer Plan) is different from SIP. There will not be any impact on your redemption if you don’t fill the STP form. I also want to let you know that the Lockin period for any Tax saver SIP is different from One time payment for tax saving in any ELSS scheme. For eg if you are investing a sum of 2000 rs pm for 12 month and the 1 SIP is June 2010 then the lockin period for this SIP will be June 2013 subsequently lockin for July 2010 will be July 2013 and May 2011 will be May 2014.
“Direct Investing through an AMC…… will save you lot of money in commissions.”
But in this post:
http://jagoinvestor.dev.diginnovators.site/2010/04/understanding-different-commissions-on-mutual-funds.html
You mentioned that: “If you invest directly the trail commission is pocketed by AMC itself .”
Please clarify.
Fazeel
Where did you see that . As far as I know AMC pocket the charge themselves.
Manish
In this article,
“It would make sense to use this method, if the amount of investment is going to be large-ish and your tenure is long-term. In that case, using this way, will save you lot of money in commissions. Just imagine that if you invest 10,000 per month in mutual funds, then with a 1% commission structure, you save Rs 100 per month, which is Rs 3,600 for a 3 yr period. So 3,600 is what you lose when you go with an agent who charges a 1% commission.”
Maybe, ur talking of upfront commission here?
Hi Manish,
Please can you advice me if its worth investing in DSP BlackRock NFO of Kotak.
Thanks in advance
No NFO please
Manish
Does the trail comm goes to AMC or Distributor(CAMS/Karvy), if I invested thru distributor?
Arkad
Distributor
Manish
Just kidding. Take it easy.
It is bad that we can not move units from one thing to another (demat/isa/amc/distributor to another demat/investment service ac/amc/distributor). Actually, it is better if they do that to promote competitiveness.
Recently sebi called for tenders to build a single web platfrom where all mutual funds can be transacted. I don’t know its status. We can expect it will progress like tortoise. I think NSE, Karvy and CAMS applied for that. You only listed offices and funds of CAMS. Have you got anything from them?
arkad
You can change the distributor if you wish , not sure on the demat account .
Manish
arkad
You can change the distributor if you wish , not sure on the demat account .
Manish
Nice article and very long comments to go through.
Some of them are really helpful.
My take on this is – Better to go direct even if your investments amount is very less or your portfolio is in lakhs.
If you got deep pocket and more to invest, hire Portfolio Management Services.
But I must appriciate your nice article and dedicated efforts to answer comments.
Milind
Nice to get your comment, I didnt well very understood why a person should go direct , if you have more money to invest . Why not pay a advisor for understanding where to invest wisely ? Are you saying we should make sure no one earns out of it ?
Manish
Amazing article manish. Its really very useful . I found the fundsindia most useful after going through the article. I was bout to call an agent but i guess u saved my 1% 😀
Thanks
Pulkit Garg
Pulkit
Treat ?
Manish
sure.. 0.5% of my 5000Rs investment 😛
That will do 🙂
hi,
too many honest financial planners are saying how low the commissions are in the mutual fund business. You have also said ‘low commission’ in the article. Please do a small exercise. Assume that an agent has 2 clients who puts Rs. 10,000 p.m. for 30 years :
a) in a mutual fund b) in an ulip
assume mutual fund pays 0.5% upfront and 0.5% trail (i assume you know how the trail is calculated) and the ulip pays 12% upfront and 1% commission on the premium for the next 29 years.
it will be an interesting exercise…
Subra
I am honoured to see your comment here . I got your point , I was mistaken on how trail is paid , i used to think its just on the amount paid per year by client ,where as its on total AUM . it was my ignorance .
From the example you suggested . Commission on ULIP would be 12% on 1.2 lacs in first year and then 1% on 1.2 lacs for 29 yrs which would be
= 14400 (first year) + 1200 * 29 (for 29 yrs)
= 49200
Commission on Mutual funds would be .5% on the AUM every year , AUM every year would be 1.2 lacs, 2.4 lacs , 3.6 lacs …
So the commission will be 600 , 1200 , 1800 … (for 30 yrs) . Adding all that it comes out to be 2.79 lacs , which is way more than ULIP’s commission .
But there are some points which are not clear to me .
from what I know the average ULIP commissions are in range to 20% – 40% in first year and then 2% trail commission . please let me know if my understanding is wrong ?
Also should’nt we consider the case when investors are not invested in the product for long and get out of it , in our country how many people keep investing in same product for 30 yrs ? If they are out in say 5-8 yrs , then in that case ULIP’s will turn out to be more costly than MF ? please give your opinion ?
Manish
Hi Manish,
Is there any difference with taxes or other charges when investing in MF as NRI customer or NON-NRI customer ?
Does NRI have any advantages/disadvantages
I recently visited FundsIndia.com and looks like its easy way to invest except one point. They number of banks they are affiliated with are very less. I hold a NRE account in some bank and they are not connected with that. The easy solution I see here is I will invest as a non-NRI customer since I have PAN No. and other details
Your views will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Milind
Milind
The tax treatment for NRI investors with respect to Mutual Fund investments is the same that is applicable for Resident Investors except that applicable tax would be deducted at source for NRIs.
Hi Manish,
Thanks for you response. They are suggesting me heartbeat silver plan. i can’t afford more than 3 lakh premium at this stage.. they also said… that even i am my family are in different cities it will be covered by their network of hospitals. a reason for considering them is that they have cover for new born as well along with other benefits which is important for me.. do you have any idea about their service quality? just want to make sure that i make the right choice.
hi ranjan,
max bupa is a new player and they don’t operate through tpas. i once called their customer care number and found them pretty well versed.. at least they could answer a lot of my queries and also got me to speak to their doctors since i was looking for a policy with a pre-existing disease..
that’s all i know so far.. they seem to have some good benefits such as cover up to sum assured for day care procedures, minimum waiting period for maternity cover etc. no personal experience yet though on taking a policy.
don’t know if this help..
Gyanesh
Thanks for your comments and value you have added here . Do you have some article which gives more information ?
Manish
If I live in Delhi and my wife and one kid lives in bagalore is there possibility of getting a single family health cover? Would there be any problem problem? Is there any facility given by max Bupa.. i am evaluating some policies from them?
Ranjan
DId you face any problem while taking the health insurance due to this , This should be ok i guess
Manish
There is another dimension to an online platform…that which is meant for advisers but the end beneficiary is the investor. This way you get the benefit of online transactions, consolidated portfolio statements etc but more importantly retaining the valuable relationship with your trusted adviser. These kind of online platforms are most popular medium of investments in developed markets like US, UK, Australia. Unfortunately not much in vogue in India. Only one online advisory driven platform currently in India i.e. iFAST Financial India
Dattaraj
ya , its coming up in india soon . thanks for your views
Manish
Dear All,
Can anyone who has the account with FundsIndia portal share their experiences wrt
buying/selling/switch/payment/portfolio etc?
Good one…Fundsindia services made me feel elated. Manish good work.
thanks
If you are fine with them , you can give a try 🙂
Manish
web portals appear a good alternative, especially a scalable business model, and trail commissions would alone sustain the business once they attract enough clients.
I’ve been paying citibank 2% commission for equities (before and after SEBI directive), they only changed terminology, but now have given access to one of their citigold wealth manager.
Smitha
And they also make sense if an investor is buying mutual funds for a good enough amount ,will save a lot in commissions in long run .
Manish
Hi all,
SEBI bans 14 insurers from selling ULIP
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/sebi-bans-14-insurance-firms-over-ulip/113036-7.html?from=tn
Regards
Yogesh
IRDA should be banned first.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/irda-asks-insurers-to-ignore-sebi-banulips/391523/
@ Raj
Good One… IRDA (Regulating Investors – Devloping Insurers & Agents) should be banned.
“To do so though, you need to have a folio number, which you get only after investing in a particular mutual fund, which means that you have to go physically to the AMC office to invest for the first time.” ….
It is not required to go to AMC office. What I do is, download the Form from AMC’s website, fill it and courier it along with the cheque. The address is given on AMC’s website.
Ban on ULIPs.
🙂 🙂 “I’m lovin’ it” 🙂 🙂
yes hemant,
seems SEBI is also a fan of manish’s column.
now IRDA and SEBI are in a tug of war. lets see what happens.
what should the invetsors who have already invested in the ulips do. withdraw money atonce or not. all the investors shall be confused now.
what do u say manish?
dr kishan
Dr Kishan
No need to worry . There is just a ban on fresh selling , everything else will be same , soon the solution will be there for the banned one also 🙂 . Keep investing in your ULIP’s if you planned for .
Manish
I know this is off topic..
but please can you tell me what are the average returns of ULIP’s and where can i see the past performance of them (ULIP wise).
I am in a big fix as i was missold a ULIP three years ago, cant discontinue it now due to the tax liabilities on closing it before 5 years.
The problem is if iam already paying it for 5 years, shouldnt i just continue it for another 5.
I get quite confused when i see the performace of MFs overshadowing that of ULIPS.
its like throwing your money on a product which i already know will come second after the race is finished in 10 years 🙁
Thanks Hitesh
Nice article Manish!!
It is really a big headache to manage your portfolio if you don;t do it thru dmat account. I do my investment directly through AMCs but it became a problem when i had to redeem some of the funds. You have to go to the office physically and make the request. If you have a large number of funds in your portfolio , I think you must invest using your Dmat account. You may pay some commission but its worth the price.
I have closed my ISA account with HDFC Bank recently. They charge Rs. 100 + 10.3% service tax per quarter and it is indeed an expensive option to invest in mutual funds.
S. Shukla
If you are buying even Rs 20,000 per quarter mutual funds, then the cost comes out to be .50% , which is ok I think , but yea .. if you are buying very less mutual funds ,then its too high .
Manish
hi Manish
I have been reading you’re blogs and must say that they are very enlighting.
Since i don’t know any other way of communating with you, i have written on your blog
Could you please tell me some 5 points to do before the financail year
Would be grateful
Aaron
Aaron
Hi , looks like you are finding how one should plan things on their own . Have a look at http://jagoinvestor.dev.diginnovators.site/archives , you will get all the articles you require
Manish
Here is the commission structure of various AMCs given to distributors
https://www.fundsindia.com/content/jsp/investor/brokerage.jsp
Nice , thanks for the link 🙂 , its helpful
Hi Manish,
Thanks for this lovely article and I had raised this as a doubt few days back.
Looks like FundsIndia.com is better option for investing in mutual funds as they have many (28) AMCs in their kitty, can buy/sell on mouse click using net banking and more importantly, free of cost. My doubt is if I buy mutual funds via FundsIndia and if something goes wrong with FundsIndia, How can I sell those units? In my question, FundsIndia is just a name, it might applicable to all service providers.
Ravikumar
Have a look at Partha’s reply above , he has cleared this doubt .
Manish
Manish
Most of the Mutual Fund House giving online investment facility. These r hassle free. Reliance Mutual Fund giving their distributor a Online Emailer tool. Through this emailer a Existing/New investor can Invest online, broker code automatically attached with this investment. If any investor want to buy MF directly I think Fund Houses Online facility is better option than Exchange.
Subhendu
Subhendu
Is this online emailer tool same as what fund houses have at their websites ?
Manish
Hi,
Manish,
I am purchasing the Mutual Fund through Sharekhan’s demat account.They do not charge me any fee for it, only demat a/c charges per year. So far it has been hasle free.
Krishna
Krishna
Thanks for the info . but they must be charging some thing extra upfront . Can you confirm ?
Manish
Excellent article Manish.
I manage all my funds by printing forms from net and then submitting them to CAMS.
Fast, simple and efficient.
Thanks
Hitesh
Hitesh
Nice .. Can you share a more detailed procedure for other fellow readers here .
Manish
Well actually it is quite simple and hassle free.
1) Browse to the site of the AMC and download the common application form.
2) Print the Aplication form and the SIP form.
3) Fill it (pretty simple forms)
4) Attach a PAN copy, once cancelled cheque, first installment of SIP through a cheque.
5) Deposit these 4 things at any CAMS office.
Work finished. (just got to monitor the (fund) performance every few months).
Hi Manish,
I want to start investing in MF. I am totally new to this business. I plan to invest around 5 thousand per month (take home is around 45 k), how should i go about it. How much can i expect back after around 8 to 10 years?Please advise.
Regards,
Shashaank
Shashaank
You should buy 2 mutual funds (equity) , divide 2,3k . You can expect 12-13% return in 10 yrs with limited downside risk .
Manish
Manish,
Thanks for the article. Once more you had done an good work. I am searching for some time to invest in MF through online but didn’t find reasonable site. But now only I came to know about FundsIndia.com.
HDFC provides an ‘Investment Services a/c’ (you must have an s/b a/c with them) to Buy/Selll MF’s online but they are charging 100+svs-tax per quarter for this. This is reasonable if you purchase in lakhs but not for a person who invest some 1000’s in a year.
ICICI had an desk/executive for MF’s in all their branches and they charge 200 rupees initially per MF policy (there is no obligation that u must hold ICICI a/c here 🙂 ). But they (said) support all AMC’s from here. For AMC’s like HDFC you can intially(first time) transact through this and generate FOLIO no, then you can transact freely from HDFC’s wesite, but some AMC’s like CANARA ROBECO doesn’t support online transaction (although FOLIO no is generated).
I think buying MF’s through Demat form is an costly process (compare to the above process)
Last month a Financial Planner came to our company to Demo their services. He told that their company will only get 20rs (as processing fee/commission) for every 5000rs we invest through him in MF’s from AMC’s. Can any body know how much of this is true??
@ Praveen
Rs 20 is true in case of AMCs like HDFC & DSP but in case of others it can be Rs 40 or Max Rs 50.(Upfront) & almost same level of yearly income(Trail)
Even in online services check for hidden charges & if someone is advicing you a product you can ask in writing what he is earning out of it & other similar products.
As always very well researched writeup Manish…
I am tired of paying you tributes 🙂 🙂
keep up the good work buddy …
rgds,
som
Som
Just keep commenting and involve in discussions . An appreciation from you readers is all required to go on and on .
Manish
Dear Manish,
Apart from the ways & modes mentioned by you, the HDFC Bank also offers online buying/selling/swotching of MFs. I think this mode should fall in the category of web-portals. One needs to have the normal HDFC netbanking account and an ISA account (Investment Services Account) linked with it to carry out the transaction. DEMAT account has no role to play in it. HDFC Bank charges a quarterly charge for maintaining the ISA account but I am not sure if it charges anything against every transaction.
Can you advice on this as I am looking forward to open an ISA account with HDFC Bank?
Regards
Hemant
Hemant
this is something new which I never knew , but still they are charging commission or some kind of charges . Fundsindia and Fundssupermart are not charging anything .
Manish
Manish,
HDFC Internet banking account charges Rs 100 per quarter once you activate the MF section for buying/selling funds.
Raj
Yeah .. i knew that . So for some one who is heavily investing in Mutual funds can consider HDFC 🙂 .
Manish
Hi Hemant,
HDFC Bank charging annually Rs 400.00 (100 per quarter) as well as they charge Rs. 100.00 if you make transaction above 10k, In case you start SIP with 1000 monthly to 1 year will also attract transcation charge and will deduct in 4 installment @ Rs25..
Thanks
Pratap Mishra
@ Hemant
Banks are super smart in charging recently “Axis Bank debited Rs225 as ‘bank charges’ 🙁 for the sale of its newly launched open-ended equity mutual fund” similar cases I have heard for HDFC/HSBC and these are in % of the investment. You have to keep your eyes wide open when dealing with bankers.
Hemant
You mean that if someone bought Axis mutual funds from Axis fund , they deducted 225 from account ?
Manish
@ Manish
Ya Axis Mutual Fund from Axis Bank(Distributor).
Hi All,
If you open ISA account from HDFC Bank or If you enable Mutual fund tab on your HDFC netbanking, they charge Rs 100 per quarter, But you can invest in HDFC mutual fund physically once and get HDFC Mutual fund online account.
You can invest from HDFC Mutual fund website directly without paying any extra money.
I do this way:
1. I have not enabled mutual fund option from HDFC netbanking (or ISA)
2. I have HDFC mutual fund online account and I invest in mutual fund
Ofcourse it is limited to HDFC funds, I also have sundaram online account which i use for sundaram investments.
No extra charges this way.
Srinivas
I think its a good way , If one has just 2-3 funds (which is recommended) . One can take one time pain and open online account with respective funds houses and then invest for free .
Manish
Yes. that’s right. by the way I am not getting notifications for the discussion in comments threads.
Hi Srinivas,
How one can open HDFC mutual fund online account?
Ankur
All you need to do is go to HDFC AMC office and tell them you want to invest directly through them , Once it will be offline work , but then you should be able to invest with them online later once your account is opened !
Manish
I think India Bulls does not provide option to buy MF. Can you confirm.
-Kapil
Kapil
I have no idea on this , best would be to confirm with their customer care .
Manish
Kapil,
There is no facility to buy MFs using indiabulls online trading platform.
~Rk
Excellent compilation of information regarding investment in mutual funds in India. I have been using the services of FundsIndia (www.fundsindia.com) since last 9 months and I am very impressed with the features available on the web site. Only limitation – they have tie-up with only 26 fund houses. But it does not stop me to invest in other fund houses. I can use the services of CAMS, Karvy or DISPL in this case.
It is great that you have also provided the list of fund houses and their web site links. A few broken links.
There were changes in some fund houses and they are operating as new names:
ABN Amro Mutual Fund –> Fortis Mutual Fund (http://www.fortisinvestments.in)
DBS Cholamandalam Mutual Fund –> L&T Mutual Fund (http://www.lntmf.com)
DSP Merrill Lynch Mutual Fund –> DSP Blackrock Mutual Fund (http://www.dspblackrock.com)
Lotus India Mutual Fund –> Religare Mutual Fund (http://www.religaremf.com)
The following fund houses are missing in the list:
Axis Mutual Fund (www.axismf.com)
Peerless Mutual Fund (www.peerlessmf.co.in)
Sahara Mutual Fund (www.saharamutual.com)
Shinsei Mutual Fund (www.shinseifunds.com)
We can also get more information from AMFI web site (http://www.amfiindia.com/amfimembers.aspx)
Keep up the good work.
Rajesh
Thanks for the update 🙂 . I will change them asap
Manish
@ Manickkam & all readers
It’s your wrong perception that Mutual Fund Companies don’t give first year trail other then new fund offers(NFO).
AMCs still give upfronts in range of .4% to 1%. And trail .4% to .8% every year on asset value.
Someone told me that these online platforms are also advising those schemes in which they are getting maximum commission. If someone can share their recent recommendations, it will be great.(Do they disclose their commission as now it’s made compulsary by SEBI)
Yesterday I read one quote:
“Understand your behavioural biases and do not allow others to exploit it. If you are greedy there is always someone to exploit that greed.”
@hemant
as i am a bit new to the financiology, i dont understand some terms. one such term is “trail”. can u please explain this in detail to us financial neonates. we would be greatful to u.
thanks
dr kishan
Dr Kishan
there are two kind of commissios
1) Upfront commissions : This is the commission paid to agents when you buy the product.
2) trail commissions : This is the ongoing commissions paid to agents every year when you make payment , this is generally small .
ULIP’s and Endowment policies have very high upfront commissions .
Manish
@ Manish
Trail commission : it is paid quarterly (in many cases monthly too) and there is not much disparity between upfront and trail. in fact some advisors negotiate with AMCs to pay lower upfront but higher trail, which is how it should be. But more importantly, it is not paid when the investor makes payment, rather it is paid till the time the money remains invested in a particular MF scheme.
Dattaraj
Yes, i agree that upfront should be lower than the trail so that even agents do not recommend products based on how fast they can get commissions.
Manish
Hemant
Here is what I can see on fundsindia.com websites .
Top 5 Equity Schemes**
* HDFC Top 200(G)
* Reliance Reg Savings-Equity(G)
* Birla SL Frontline Equity-A(G)
* SBI Magnum Contra(G)
* Sundaram BNPP Select Midcap(G)
Top 5 Debt Schemes**
* Birla SL ST-Ret(G)
* UTI FRF-STP(G)
* Templeton India ST Income(G)
* HDFC High Interest-STP(G)
* Reliance FRF(G)
** Based on investment activity in FundsIndia.
Can you share the commissions structure of these funds ?
@ Manish
If these are their adviced funds then they fall in the slab that I have mentioned above HDFC on the lower side & Sundaram on the Higher Side.
** Based on investment activity in FundsIndia ( I am not sure what they mean by this. It looks this is not there advice, these are the funds that are purchased by maximum number of investors or maximum amount.)
They must be sending monthly or quaterly advice to investors, I think that will give more clarrity.
I think someone who has subscribed to them can share this.
@Hemant
They disclose the trial commissions in Kotak. From that only, I was able to deduce that most of the companies other than the NFO’s are not giving trial commission in the 1st year. Its basically dependant on the company, though.
-Manickkam.
@ Manickkam
I must say they are not sharing the complete information. They are hiding first year upfront & 1st year trail.
Your statement can only hold true in case of MIPs & Tax Plans but in that case there is fat upfront.
You ask them to send structure on your mail. (Even if you are investing through them in XYZ fund, you can still ask for brokerage structure of all funds they deal in. SEBI has give you this right.)
Also, I missed to mention a point in my previous comment.
Both ICICI direct and Kotak securities are allowing the investors to open the demat account to only invest in mutual fund houses. ICICI direct will charge you Rs. 100/- initially for this and there will be some charges as mentioned in the above article if the corpus is less than 8 Laks. You can move your mutual fund investments to ICICI direct as well to make your total corpus 8 Laks thereby there will be no charges when you invest more.
Kotak securities will have some opening charges but I don’t think they have any brokerage charges for investing in the mutual fund houses similar to the normal demat account. The option of having only the mutual fund investments in kotak securities was introduced very recently, may be a week back.
-Manickkam.
I am sure that, Sharekhan and Kotak Securities doesn’t charge anything for the mutual fund investments.
They get the money from the AMC directly instead as trial commissions according to the mutual fund invested. Most of the mutual fund companies except for the NFO, doesn’t give 1st year trial commission, and others give 2nd Year Trial commission.
-Manickkam
Manickkam
Do you have personal experience with Sharekhan and Kotak , never knew that they give their service for free ? Will they entertain if we want to invest just 1k per month ?
Manish
Yes. I was a customer of Sharekhan and I am a customer of Kotak. 🙂
@Manickkam
As you said you are customer of Kotak(I assume Kotak Securities).
Are they deducting something at the time of purchase or redemption, similar as Equity? As some of the broking houses are doing this. Check your contract notes.
Ohh
Thats a valid point to note . Many people feel great about their ULIP’s too which give them “free insurance” , hehe 🙂
Manish
Yes. I am a customer of Kotak securities as well.
There is no charge while purchasing/redeeming the mutual fund. If the fund itself has the exit load, then it might get reflected. I have to experience it still.. 😉
The charge structure that it gets via the trialing commission from the mutual fund is revealed to the investors through the link before the ‘Submit’ button.
This has all the charges after 1st year and 2nd year separately, for each type of fund.
-Manickkam.
Online Portals and Platforms surely give you convenience but also can tempt you to make wrong investment decisions. Buying a fund online without consulting your planner/advisor is like buying medicine (by making a phone call to your chemist and get home delivery) without asking the doctor.
Because of the ease and convenience in investing, people unnecessarily add multiple funds in the portfolio, which are not in line with their goals but are really COOL, when you talk about them in the party curcuit eg. INDO GLOBAL FUNDs, OFFSHORE and SECTOR FUNDS.
Do thorough research or consult the right ‘Advisor’ if you do not have the time.
happy investing !!
Regards,
Abhishek
Here, the issue is everyone around call themselves as ‘ADVISOR’. Its always better to do your own analysis before investing in any of the mutual funds.
If you don’t find time and is out in search for an advisor, you should be lucky enough to get a good advisor, of course, like Manish. Even after getting the advise, you shouldn’t blindly follow it and then later blame him, if it gets failed.
-Manickkam
manickkam
thats why better to hire someone whom you trust or who is really very good in his field .
manish
Abhishek
totally agree with you .
Manish
Pretty convenient to do investments through FundsIndia. Once you create an account, you simply have to select a scheme of your choice and start investing; all relevant documents are automatically downloaded to your profile, once select details like Scheme Name, Amount and others. You can download these docs, print them and send it to them or wait for them to courier the docs to you after which you can schedule a pickup through their website and Blue Dart would pick up the docs – pretty convenient an option. Additionally, you can also transfer your existing MF investments to them by selecting the details online – this activity may take sometime, almost a month but it is hassle free and helps you to consolidate your new as well as old investments in one place.
Additionally, based on your investor profile – it suggests pre-packaged MF portfolios also and has now started VIP investing and Equity platforms also. Also, the fact that they do not charge a fee for MF investments but provide Value Added Services and have a decent Call Centre support is of great help.
Overall, it looks like a fairly, convenient option so far.
FundsIndia doesn’t seem to have all the AMC in it for now. They say they will add it soon. Are they having it all?
Otherwise, seems to be a viable option if you don’t have a demat account and want only to invest in mutual fund investments.
-Manickkam
Manickkam
they dont have all of it . Its will be added in future . I think it wont matter much , all the major ones are there already ? no ?
Manish
My friend was trying to invest in DSP Blackrock and it was not there.! and finally ended up with ICICI.
Its really surprised me, one of the oldest and major fund house do not have direct online facility. They are in the process of setting up online facility. But CAMSONLINE is supporting to redeem and purchase online for DSP funds online.
YEs DSPBR is not with them. I wanted to invest some in DSPBR Equity.
Pradeep
thanks for the whole procedure 🙂
Manish
@ Pradeep
Can you please share a pre-packaged portfolio of fundsindia
Hemant,
FundsIndia 6 different portfolio types in the prepackaged section – Aggressive, Moderate, Conservative, Tax Savings, Combinator and Preserver, with an indication of expected 1 yr, 3 yr and 5 yr Returns. You can select any of these options and the system shows a set of packages. Have provided 3 portfolio types below :
Aggressive – HDFC Top 200 Fund – Growth (40%), Reliance Regular Savings Fund – Equity Plan – Growth (30%) and SBI Magnum Sector Funds Umbrella – Contra Fund – Growth (30%).
Moderate – IDFC Dynamic Bond Fund – Plan A – Growth (50%), HDFC Top 200 Fund – Growth (25%) and Reliance Growth Fund – Retail Plan – Growth Plan – Growth Option (25%)
Preserver – Reliance Regular Savings Fund – Equity Plan – Growth (20%), Birla Sun Life Dynamic Bond Fund – Retail Plan – Growth (80%)
Each portfolio has a Minimum investment amount and the 1yr, 3yr and 5 yr expected returns of each scheme in a portfolio is also shown.
Fundsupermart.co.in also offers different portfolios according to your risk profile..
https://www.fundsupermart.co.in/main/investmentportfolio/investmentportfolio.tpl?
You may check it using the tool – Risk Profiler and invest as per that..
http://www.fundsupermart.co.in/main/research/assistBuy.svdo?formSubmitUrl=assistBuyScore.svdo
@ Pradeep
They will love to do this 🙂
“Additionally, you can also transfer your existing MF investments to them by selecting the details online – this activity may take sometime, almost a month but it is hassle free and helps you to consolidate your new as well as old investments in one place. ”
Today’s News “The industry body (AMFI) has issued warning notices to HSBC, NJ India Invest, HDFC Bank and Kotak Mahindra Bank for not complying with NOC norms and luring investors to change distributors to garner trail commission.”
I think all online distributors are working on similar lines. They are luring people to transfer existing funds to them so that they can multiply their earnings.
“They are luring people to transfer existing funds to them so that they can multiply their earnings.” I cannot see anything wrong with the approach as long as it is transparent and within the legal ambit and the customer does not face any issues. The fact that you are consolidating all your offline investments to one online platform is fairly convenient. The fact that paper work is reduced and courier handling, without any charges, is done by them makes it a fairly comfortable option. Nevertheless, I will mail them today on this point and update you on their response.
Pradeep
I agree . If something reduces paperwork and hassles for customers , Its fine I think .
Manish
@ Manish & Pradeep
Even I think it’s fine but AMFI don’t feel so.
Must be a point that we don’t know but AMFI can see. AMFI has threatened them that it may cancell their registration. AMFI will come with few more names in coming days.
Must be something very serious.
I wrote to Funds India raising apprehensions on the Easy Transfer process and AMFI clamping down on scheme transfers from one distributor to another. Here is their reply:
Hello sir,
Agree with you 100%. What is happening in the industry will have an impact on us and our customers if the law goes back to make it very difficult to effect transfers. A few bad apples spoil the basket for the rest of us 🙁
As you know, we have never solicited transfers from our customers. We only try to make it easy for those who wish to do the transfers.
We have been brutally candid about the transfer process with our investors. Please read this article:
We explain the process in detail and let our investors know exactly what is happening.
Appreciate your concern,
Thanks,
Srikanth
@ e pradeep
on being directed by u i visited the fundsindia website. i was really impressed by their effort and even opened a free account and downloaded the completed application form. along with it was the list of Terms and conditions which asks us to authorise WIFS to buy mutual funds in our name. what my concern is that do we transfer the money to wifs first and then they buy for us in our names or do we pay directly to the AMC (as we do while we buy through an agent). secondly since this is an internet transfer and the folio no etc are known to them too,what is it that prevents them from selling these folios in future without the knowledge of the investor and then runoff with the money. i am not talking about the fundsindia getting collapsed; i am talking about a situation of fraud by any such company. in case of investments through agents we give a/c payee cheques in the names of AMCs and the folios reach us directly and thus only we know their nos, (atleast thats what i know – correct me if i am wrong) and only we can sell them back; also when we personally fill the forms we ensure that we make the repayment mode as direct credit to our banks. is it possible in the case of fundsindia too.
after reading all the terms and conditions the scene was very much “pro” WIFS. probably in general all the T&Cs of any institution are made like that only. i too want to do all the dealings through an internet platform since it eases off the procedure. but i am a bit skeptical about funds india since its still new and not time tested.
have u people also gone through the terms and conditions and if yes do u think they are ok. please enlighten me so that i too can start dealing through them
dr kishan
Hi all,
Dr. Kishan highlighted some valid points here. Can someone please reply to these queries. I am quoting the same points:
1) FundsIndia – Terms and conditions asks us to authorise WIFS to buy mutual funds in our name. what my concern is that do we transfer the money to wifs first and then they buy for us in our names or do we pay directly to the AMC (as we do while we buy through an agent).
2) since this is an internet transfer and the folio no etc are known to them too,what is it that prevents them from selling these folios in future without the knowledge of the investor and then runoff with the money. i am not talking about the fundsindia getting collapsed; i am talking about a situation of fraud by any such company. in case of investments through agents we give a/c payee cheques in the names of AMCs and the folios reach us directly and thus only we know their nos, (atleast thats what i know – correct me if i am wrong) and only we can sell them back; also when we personally fill the forms we ensure that we make the repayment mode as direct credit to our banks. is it possible in the case of fundsindia too.
Regards,
Arudra.
Hello sir,
Srikanth from FundsIndia here.
We cannot runoff with your money. The folios are held explicitly in your name (you can verify by going directly to the mutual funds). And upon redemption, the money goes directly from the AMC’s bank account to your bank account.
Thanks,
Srikanth
Srikanth,
Thanks a lot for that clarification.
Regards,
Arudra.
Hi Manish,
I have heard that sharekhan doesn’t charge any amount (post aug1st 2009) for MF investment. Can you confirm this ?
Thanks
GD
Gunjan
No idea on this , might be true .. check with them .
Manish
It is true.
-Manickkam
I can confirm it is true. (being a sharekhan customer).
dear manish sir
sharekhan does not charge any amount for MF.But it has one drawback
we can invest in MF(SIP) thru sharekhan only for max.10 years while ICICI direct has facility for 25 years. Has it make any difference?
Yes…Gunjan.. sharekhan doesn’t charge any amount for mf transaction in their portal for its clients..
Dear Manish,
I have a question to ask you..
I usually buy mutual funds through the ICICI direct demat portal..
I usually buy Benchmark mutual funds because I like Index funds..
What will happen if ICICI bank collapses & what will happen if Benchmark MF house collapses.. What will happen to my MF units and the underlying shares in such a scenario..
I know that these are highly unlikely scenarios, but I plan to remain invested for the next 30 years till my retirement age and hence these questions are very relevant to me..
@drkhann- I do not know if you are aware but ICICIdirect charges their fees even while investing in LIQIIDBEES.
Dr Khan
All the records are mantained with CAMS in India .. So even if these portal goes away you dont loose things . You have your folio number and all withyou . you can sell things through CAMS .
Others , please correct me if i am wrong .
manish
Dr Khann,
Your concerns are valid in the light of the financial crises that we have been witnessing since sep 2008..
Financial institution and asset management companies in India are regulated by RBI and SEBI..
They constantly monitor the balance sheets and other relevant data of these firms and the respective regulators have put together necessary steps to ensure that the investors are protected by taking corrective steps..
For eg.. when global trust bank collapsed, it was merged with Oriental Bank of Commerce and clients/depositors who had funds/securities in dmat accounts were able to get it back or transferred to the new Oriental Bank of Commerce account.. The process takes a while but you would get it..
In India, we have excellent systems and process [much better than developed world] partly due to conservative policies framed by RBI and others regulatory bodies.
For more information on the GTB scam related to deposits and dmat accounts, you can read the link below..
Another interesting aspect is that your order verification [on equity and etf purchases/sales] is posted on the NSE site on the same day..
Your can ask your broker for the unique order number for the trade executed by you. You can verify the stock, price, qty, etc through this unique order number in the nse site..
the orders are archived for a period of 8 years!
If am not wrong, NSE is probably only one or very few exchanges to have this facility for investors.
This is a valid documentary proof for transactions done by you,which you can use in case your broker fails to send you the contract notes or ledger statements or if there are any discrepancies.
Apart from this, the clearing corporation ensures that investors are protected from defaults by members by acting as third party and your transactions are cleared.
For more information you can read the RBI circular below:
http://www.rbi.org.in/SCRIPTs/PublicationReportDetails.aspx?FromDate=05/14/01&SECID=21&SUBSECID=0
Next, all asset management companies have to follow strict guidelines in terms of their financials as prescribed by SEBI. The foremost criteria is 40% of networth of the amc has to be brought in by the sponsor. A sponsor is a company/consortium/institution which would like to float the asset management company. It also appoints trustees who oversee the amcs. The trustees have the authority to monitor and replace the asset management company , if they fail to perform their duties effectively at any point of time.. This is apart from the regulators and government..
Of course, one needs to be more careful while choosing your broker and investment companies and constantly monitor news and events related to the company.. If at any point of time you get uncomfortable, you could pull out your investments and park it in other stronger firms.
hope this helps..
Partha
thanks for this great knowledge . Many people must have this question . I will put it in next “Learning from Comment” section .
Manish
irrespective of the distributor (icici direct) or the AMC (Benchmark) going bust, what matters is the underlying securities/ stocks purchased by them with your money. If those are sound companies, then you need not worry at all.
Sir,
ICICI Bank/Direct is your stock broker, and they don’t maintain records of tradeable securities you own. These securities i.e., Index ETF units (I presume you own NiftyBeES/Junior BeES) are maintained in your Demat A/C, which actually is under the aegis of NSDL. Even if the stock broker goes bankrupt, NSDL has all records of your Demat A/C. Just approach NSDL identifying yourself with relevant documentation – that’s all you have to do, before you can transfer those securities to someone else (as a part of redemption of your units).
Now, Benchmark AMC collapses (let’s say). After all, Benchmark AMC is just an Asset Management Company. Per the Rules and Regulations, no AMC is allowed to maintain underlying assets of a given mutual fund scheme in its account – such assets are held with an appointed entity called ‘Custodian’. Given that the the actual assets of the mutual fund scheme are very well under the custody of the ‘Custodian’, there is nothing to worry even if the AMC goes bust.
Under such circumstances of a specific AMC going bust, a different AMC can takeover the operations of the bust AMC, and start managing the assets of the Mutual Fund Scheme as done by the previous AMC. Or if the situation is so grave that no new AMC comes forward, SEBI appoints an Official Liquidator and ensures your legitimate share of money (in proportion to the number of units you own) is returned back to you.
This is all as per appropriate Mutual Funds Regulatory Framework, endorsed by Indian Laws. If you are an Equity Index Fund Investor in India, other than the systemic risk in equity markets, the other sorts of risks (arising due to AMC or stock broker collapse) are practically nil.
For detailed information, please refer (Chapter 4: CONSTITUTION AND MANAGEMENT OF ASSET MANAGEMENT
COMPANY AND CUSTODIAN).
Sarath
Thanks for the insights 🙂 . Nice link
Manish
Thanks Manish. I have a question.
Can’t we use Demat account for SIP, STP etc? If yes, why do we need separate web portals? Are not they same in some way? IS it that the demat players like ICICI direct charge more than the we portals?
Karshudha
The web portals i mentioned do not charge any commission , ICICI and HDFC will charge you some commission .
manish
On a similar note, you can now auto-create a consolidated MF portfolio account of all the MFs invested across all the fund houses at CAMS website free of cost:
https://www.camsonline.com/default1.html
..that too irrespective of your subscription channel.
Thought it would be helpful..
I think they dont have Reliance MF’s under their fund’s list
It supports Karvy, so indirectly Reliance is included.
Puneet
Yea thats a good option , I was thinking of covering this sometime ,but you opened the surprise 😉
Manish
🙂 you are welcome ;P
dear manish
a very helpful article for the new investors
after i became associated with u about 2 months ago i have started investing in MFs in a more informed way after researching into them. i am in Vizag A. P. and started some research about the modes of investment in MFs, when i came to know about an agent association called ECS which is making investments with 100% allocation without taking any brokerage from me, at least not at the time of entry into the MF. i asked them the mode of their profit when they explained that the AMC gives them the commission depending upon their contribution to the AUM (Asset under managament) on an yearly basis. thus the customer doesn’t pay anything from the pocket. the executive of this group came to my place with all the forms i requested to bring and i filled up the forms and he took the necessary documents and then next day delivered the acknowledgements too. all this for no money. so i felt that still this is the cheapest way to invest as compared to the investing through the demat accounts. they have their branches in other cities too. the concerned web site is http://www.ecsconsultants.com. i’m sure other agencies like bajaj capital would also be giving these services. i think due to competition these agencies are giving these services free. as of now i’m not able to find any fraud in this sytem. please correct me if i’m wrong.
dr kishan
Dr Kishan
Thanks for your update on this , Yea , I think , in long term due to competition, more and more service providors will come with this model .
What do you think about convinience in selling the mutual funds through these web portals ?
Manish
@dr kishan – There are no free lunches. You say “..thus the customer doesn’t pay anything from the pocket…” Where does the AMC pay from ? From the ‘Fund management charges – FMC that they charge to the fund. The FMC reduces the fund value, which in turn reduces the NAV, which in turn reduces the account value of the client. No doubt here are limits to the FMC. No doubt, in relative terms the client is benefited by ‘NO entry load’ butin absolute terms he does incur expenses; it is not free.
Sunil,
Previously, There was both ‘Entry Load’ as well ‘FMC’ and other charges. At least, now the entry load has been removed and certainly the investors has been benefitted.
-Manickkam.
sunil date,
u are right, what i meant was to compare the two methods of buying the MFs. buying through the agents like the ones i mentioned is still cheaper than buying online through the trading a/c platforms since these agents are not charging commissions while the online sites are doing it. the expenses which the investor incurs are still there such as the FMC etc. which is same no matter which method is used for buying the MFs. i am sorry if wasn’t clear the last time.
dr kishan
Dr Kishan,
what one has to evaluate before considering the various options of investing is what type of investor am I?? If i am a self informed investor who know what to invest and more importantly, when to do the necessary rebalancing of portfolio (including additional investments from time to time), then probably I would go with the option of an agent who gives me free service, as I am only looking at convenience. From my own experience, I am from the MF industry and have helped others with their investment decisions. I am also what you could categorise as a self informed investor. But over the years i realised that when it came to my own finances, I was not able to invest in a disciplined manner, due to the rigours of my professional work. Many a times, I would postpone the decision to invest for another day, and that day would take months to come. thats when i decided to take the services of an advisor myself. I would blindly pay him fees if he chooses to charge me, as I am sure he would be in a position to deliver extra returns over a long period, much more than my additional cost. Even a doctor goes to another doctor for his own treatment or for that of his close family members, as he loses his professional touch due to the emotional factor. I think same is the case with one’s own money !!
Dattaraj
Great thoughts 🙂 . Agents should always be like chemists who just help you in getting the funds , role of advisor can not be eliminated .
Manish
@ Manish –
FundsIndia.com link is probably mis typed. Great info though. I was waiting for this.
Thanks,
Pratik
Prathik
Thanks , I fixed it . what are your views about the different ways , which is the best way you think ?
Manish
Hi Manish,
As usual neatly compiled one on how to invest in mutual funds..
one small gaffe..
mutual funds come under the purview of SEBI.. hence the entry loads were banned by SEBI and not IRDA.. though I wish they do it asap as recommended by the Swarup committee! Investors could save huge sums paid out as commissions to agents:-) and thereby earn better returns..
Partha’s right! Don;t know why I didn’t catch that!
Partha
My bad . Looks like even my subconcious mind also wants to attack IRDA 🙂 . make the changes
Manish
@Partha I – You seem to be against the transaction agents ( MF, Insurance, PO etc) earning their livelyhood. If you are OK with paying a fee to a financial planner or doing your own studies ; no hassles. But otherwise, do you rue the fact that your KIRANA wala and Pharmacist also gets commission, Your doctor / lawyer also earns money out of you. For that matter you too charge your company / your clients for the services you render. All that could be considered as “Huge sums paid as commission…”
Sunil
I am in some way with partha’s side . There are great agents who advice nicely keeping clients profile and needs in mind . Paying them even 3-4% is fine I think . But how many mutual funds or insurance agents are doing it more than getting signature of clinets, atbest telling some top 10 funds names which appear on valueresearchonline . Is it not a good idea of avoid those clients ? I think partha meant that . What do you say ?
Manish
Sunil,
the traders usually work on thin margins..competition ensures that..
otherwise there wouldn’t be many stores..you will have monopolies and oligopolies..
we are not talking about commissions..
we are talking about fees..
just a like a doctor charges fees..
again there is a distinction between a doctor and a doctor..
some literally do day light robbery..absolutely no value add..
plus they take commission by directing you to do unnecessary tests..
those are the ones you would never go back..one you realize it..
same goes to insurance agents..if clients do come to know that they have been cheated and sold wrongly, they are never going to go back to them..
the direct result of that is high rate of attrition in renewal of premiums after the first year.. you can get statistics on that..i don’t have to say anything on it..
more and more people are realizing that..
why do you think its happening..
greed by agents ..period..
coming to the fees, a planner[ by that I don’t mean that one has to necessarily have a CFP degree.. but one who can still be a good planner through experience.. there are umpteen case studies in real world ..that says educational qualification alone does not make one a specialist in their chosen area.. the one who is passionate and strictly follows the practices of serving the clients and adding value always have the right to charge reasonable fees.. Internationally, the average fees charged by a client centric planner is 1% of the assets they manage..
let me give you an example of how even pharmacists add value.. do you know there are really good local neighborhood pharmacists who educate the customers the differential pricing of a product of a particular manufacturer prescribed by a doctor.. the same product by another manufacturer would cost 1/5 th of it.. hardly much of a quality difference.. they understand the needs of the consumer [they know many people in India cannot afford costly medicines]..now tell me..if the pharmacist wanted he could have just given the product prescribed by the doctor..he would have earned better commissions…
this is what i call as client centric model.. every industry and every profession can do it..
by doing this they not only get to retain clients but get good referrals which increases their business..
I have nothing against the agents..its the organizations which have to change their business models to ensure that they add value to investors and depositors..otherwise competition would anyway drive them to do it..
personally, the agents/advisors/distributors/bankers ..everyone in the financial services space would need to graduate to consulting by upgrading their skill sets and providing right solutions for their clients. That’s the only way they can earn the trust of clients and retain them.. This is the way forward.. Whether you like it not its going to happen sooner or later..
The earlier we all accept this reality and work towards improving ourselves we would create win-win situation for both clients and us..
hope this helps..
cheers
@Pratha
“same goes to insurance agents..if clients do come to know that they have been cheated and sold wrongly, they are never going to go back to them..”
I worked for Asset Management Companies for 4 years & whenever I raised this point to distributors their reply was “Who cares…. India ki population itni badi hai ki 1 jayega 2 ayenge”.
Everyone instead of working for the investors, are working against the investors just to grab more and more money from them.
Hemant
The worst part with Insurance is that the upfront commission in insurance are so high that an agent can literally afford to loose the customer once he gets first year commission .
Manish
Hemant,
things are changing..
if you look at the ordinary/average mutual fund agent with below average skill sets and knowledge, they have almost lost their mutual fund business since aug 2009..
they are not able to convince clients to pay fees..so they the service few clients for trail commission, provided the client investments are big enough.
the small investors are totally ignored and they have to figure out their own ways to invest by learning themselves and investing online or go to go amcs to make their purchases/sales..
once this happens in insurance too, the insurance agents will be left with two choices – either move out of business or re-train them selves and become a better adviser for their clients and grow the business..
of course, you always have committed and better informed agents across mf and insurance who would continue to do well..
that set of people are currently a minority but it will grow in the future..
there is no other way..
you can read this interesting piece written by Rajesh Krishnamurthy of ifast..
It talks about the global and indian trends in the capital markets and regulatory changes in the countries..
http://www.livemint.com/2010/04/07212048/Interregulatory-coordination.html
Nice info. in detail Manish…Keep up the Good work!!!
Thanks Krish
Were you not aware of all the options ?
Manish
No Manish…I was in the impressing that we can only invest in MF with demat a/c or thru agent…I was not aware of other options…
Thanks for the useful info…
Krish
Happens 🙂 . Even i was not aware about CAMS and Kotak and all .
Manish
There is one otherway , through CAMS . Check out the website http://camsonline.com/
Every other way of MG investment you will incur charges. Only in CAMS you can setup STP , forms are available on online on the website. Is there a downside ? yes , so far CAMS does not have linkup with any bank for money transfer , investments has to gothrough cheques .
Hope this helps.
Rangaraj
Rangaraj
I think CAMS also gives mutual funds agents number on request ?
Manish
No. CAMS works very similar to going to AMC. Adv is that you can do operations of all the AMCs (which CAMS supports) in one go. for ex, u want to Invest in DSP, HDFC, KOTAK, you can just go to One Office instead of 3.
It is not mandatory to have Agent, you can submit DIRECT application. I do almost all investment through CAMS or KARVY (for reliance). Only think they did not accept is 1) SIP Cancellation for some AMCs (ICICI) 2) Nomination Changes both of these are rare request anyways.
Also, they have something called Active Statment. Check their website. Single Statement for all AMC supported by Them and Karvy will reach your email
For someone who does 20 SIPs per month, it is quite easy to have one statement to tally at end of month 🙂
Jithesh
Nice to get these feedbacks 🙂 . let me add these things in the Article .
Manish
Hey, I just opened my account with FundsIndia.
Has been really easy buying funds (I hope reedeming would be as easy too!).
Have been reading your blog regularly for some time now.
Keep up the good work!
Regards,
Prakash
Prakash
nice to hear that . may be you would like to share your experience here in details . I would like to get the whole procedure in steps ? Can you ? Please
manish
1) Go to Funds India website; create a login Id
2) Fill up the application form online (personal + bank details needs to be filled up in the form). Click submit.
3) PDF version of application form is generated online in the website – one can download this ‘completed applicaiton’ form from the website and print it. Anyways, Funds India also sends you the form via courier regardless of whether you have downloaded it from the site or not.
4) KYC form needs to be filled up – can be downloaded from their website (or you can wait for their courier)
5) Call/Email/Schedule a pick-up on funds india website – A blue dart representative will pick up the completed application form + KYC form + other proof documents (like address proof, ID, Pan Card, Cancelled Bank check)
6) Funds India will confirm that your account is active once they’ve verified your documents. They’ll initimate you via email and sms on your mobile.
7) Start buying / selling mutual funds now – best part is you dont need to do any more paperwork at all (unless you want to start a SIP for which you need to fill the ECS application form).
The Customer support/service is good – I called them up a couple of times and they’re always very helpful.
Another thing – I didnt have to pay any courier charges.
I think now they’re charging a small amount of Rs 50 for new account application (from April 1st 2010 onwards) to cover the courier charge.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Prakash
Btw, It took me aropund 7 working days overall – right from login ID creation to account activation. Must say thats a good turn around time!
Also you can ‘transfer’ all your existing mutual funds portfolio to Funds India account – So you can consolidate all your funds in one place. Makes it easier to keep track of.
Prakash
Thanks for the whole info . its very useful 🙂
Manish
@Prakash Sharma
seems you are working with fundsindia. you seem to know the entire process, customer service & charges just toooo well 😉
It seems you are helping dying Mutual Fund industry after serial of nuclear bombs droped by SEBI.
Great Job. 🙂
Hemant
Indirect help you can say , most of the people are not aware about different ways of investing in mutual funds, so I thought of writing this .
Manish
@ Manish
Online platforms will provide only transaction convenience but not advice. How these platform will make tailor made advice as “people have one thing in common that they all are different”.
Investor think they don’t need advice, only buying a product is NIRVANA. But they are wrong.
Before that people have to make a financial plan, investment strategy, choice of product & then finally come transaction. Then only they can achieve their financial goals.
Mr PV Subbarao says “I have said this many times in the past – the best way to create wealth is to spend time lavishly in searching for a good ‘adviser’.”
In this article he quotes you as well
http://www.subramoney.com/2010/04/insurance-agent-is-doomed/
Hemant
I agree , but given current situation in our counrty , not more than 1 out of 100 are taking advice and investing , 99 people are still just buying , so atleast till their thinking is changed we need to tell them what are the ways to invest . No doubt that blind investing is a no no .
Manish
@ Manish
I partially agree with you.
Still we have a long way to go, we should not expect world to change in 1 day.
As one of your punchline in Poll says “Throwing light in people’s mind.”, we have to throw more light in their mind to enlighten that.
Great effort, keep rocking!